Twinkle Twinkle Little Star - OOC Chat

Oh I see what it is, shoulda been paying more attention to Mikel's rolls.

Your using the wrong hits system for everything.

Hits Open is for rerolling on results of X. You only reroll a 6 in SR4 if you are using edge. Edge is the only thing that can cause exploding dice any more unlike in SR3 and prior.

OHHH! Sorry guys! ok, I'll reroll all that then, and repost the new result. I wasn't trying to spend edge, I just most recently played SR3.

I redid everything from that first roll onward (since you hadn't actually ruled on anything else), so 19 attempts for the rest of that first minute - got me to 81 hits.

Cool. Toss in an AR based matrix perception check with the distracted penalty.

Oops! Sorry for the misunderstanding! I saw the .hitsopen and just assumed edge; it didn't even occur to me that you could have been rolling on SR3 rules... My mistake!

Kesslan wrote:

Cool. Toss in an AR based matrix perception check with the distracted penalty.

Done - 4 hits

Sorry about all of the confusion guys, I know SR3 much better than I do SR4, though I much prefer SR4s method of resolving tests.

Kesslan, can a spirit use concealment on the physical plane and on the astral plane simultaneously in your game? Also, do contact lenses hinder astral perception or are they concidered far enough inside ones own aura to not be an obstacle? Unlike a cars window.

I don't consider contacts to be a hindrance to astral sight as you are not actually using your eyes to see into the astral world. Though it may seem that way it's very clearly established that even the blind can see into the astral if they possess the ability to see into the astral in the first place. It's more of a 'psychic sense' The reason you can't see through windows with astral sight is because you are seeing the window's aura. Even dead things have an aura of sorts it's just not a living one or something like that.

As to concealment I'll have to read up on the ability and get back to you.

No problem Kesslan. I'll summon the spirit anyway. It will be usefull one way or the other.

About concealment, as I have read it, it is a little bit ambiguous whether concealment is possible on both planes or only on one at a time. I think it can be interpreted both ways. And of course it's your game, so you decide.

Well under the ability description it clearly states that dual natured creatures can use it to conceal auras in Astral space as well and that concealment works against any perception tests. That it adds in dual natured specifically as a separate entry though indicates that one at the very least must be able to see what you are concealing more or less for it to work on the astral plane, though for what ever reason the same doesn't appear to apply to the physical plane if it's a purely astral being.

Dual natured beings can as they see both physical and astral simultaneously, so if they have the concealment power they can conceal both at the same time.

Spirits are always dual natured if they are manifested as far as I understand so that would apply as well. However they are also purely astral beings when not manifested so I suppose as long as they can see the aura they can conceal it on the physical and astral even without being manifested. The same does not seem to apply though if it's a being unable to see the astral plane, in which case it would only work on the physical, or only work on the astral so long as it was viewing the astral assuming the critter possesses that ability as Astral Sight automatically enters you into a state of being a dual natured being unless you are a purely astral entity. Purely astral entities can like wise only do so much to the physical world (Roughly on par with what you can do the astral environment without seeing it) unless they manifest and doing so makes them dual natured.

That sounds logical and helps the plan along just fine.

I edited my last post to include the summoning. Sha should also be able to see the spirit.

I suddenly have a feeling that I should be more detailed on what Scarlet is carrying.

heh, nah, I ALWAYS overdo that sort of thing. You should see some of my Rifts games. I wanted to put it in my Sig, but the sig space here is exceptionally small. so instead I have a link to that IC post in my sig.

Still I think I'll tweak it a bit.

Answered Sha's question about vocal or subvocal

I just noticed. Do Sha's animals count as one person each? Chasky for certain. But the smaller animals too? The Spirit has a limit of how many people it can conceal at one time. I think it's force/people.

Yes. For the purpose of spells with limitations on how many individuals it can be used on, the individual animals/people/thing count as 1 unit even if they are operating under situations such as mob mind or other animal grouping rules.

Ok. Gala, how many animals have you had on you? I think three, right? Which would just fit. But Darkon shouldn't activate his focus, or they get caught.

Erm... That may be a problem. Kesslan is going to have to make a ruling on this specifically...

I have 3 animals. Each animal is possessed by a spirit, as well as Sha'hGrim. So, Sha'hGrim and her circus could, if Kesslan thinks it's appropriate, count as 8 total individuals: Sha'hGrim, her possessing spirit, Chasky, his spirit, the Bandit, it's spirit (just a watcher), and the Owl, and it's spirit (also just a watcher).
On the other hand, each animal and spirit are all occupying only one single entity, on both planes (since it is a possession). So it could be appropriate to say that they are only 4 individuals as well.
But there's no indication of rules either way on this in the books, so this is entirely up to Kesslan.

Hmm that's a tough one actually.

Generally speaking a possessed individual is still one entity while the possessing spirit is another. However in accordance with the rules for possession damage to one causes damage to both and the only way to forcibly separate two is to banish the spirit. Even if willingly separated but damaged while in combat, both the spirit and possessed retain the damage they took. As possession likely enhances the damage track due to now using the augmented maximum attributes it's possible this will result in one or both going into overflow when separated if sufficiently injured. However use of any spirit's powers etc still uses up services so that still keeps them somewhat separated in one sense while being effectively completely merged in another. It gets even more cloudy when using channelling metamagic.

That said as damage is treated as affecting a single individual and possessing spirits rarely have the ability to physically materialize as an off set I'd say that for the purpose of the concealment power a possessed individual or thing counts as one being.

I'm also going to have to try and look up what the actual stats are for the various animals Sha'grim has and work out what their augmented maximums are for future reference in regards to possession.

It is tough! And since it is not directly addressed in the rules, I knew that you would have to make a specific ruling on this. What's worse: I wasn't sure which way I would rule under the same circumstance, since I hadn't had to think about it until this instance either! That said: I agree with your logic. I'm still not sure how I would rule, but your logic is sound, and it's likely that I would rule the same way you have.


I have all of the attributes for the animals on my character sheet, and will supply you with the augmented attributes sometime today or tomorrow in an OOC post, for your reference. I will include damage and armor, as well as available powers and services owed.
I'm not sure when I will get to it, but since I already have it, it shouldn't take me too long - I just have to co-locate all of the data for you.

Meant to post sooner but I've been pretty sick and forgot. Going to be out of town today till the 10th

No worries.

Feel better!

Get well again.

No seriously, that's an order!

But really. Allow yourself some nice treat, get well again soon.