...And High Water OOC

Phantom, where are the bathrooms in the bar? And how high are the ceilings?

Bathrooms, hadn't thought about that but for now assume they are in a door to the right of the bar area, from the perspective of the drawing i have posted. As for height of the bar, give it 9 feet with 1 foot rafters.

Ok. So that would make the bathrooms on the same side of the building that the rear exit is on?

sure, why the hell not.

lol. Ok. I got the picture now.

Ok, so I'm imagining that the guards are just south of the dance floor, with the table between them and the bar, and that Iceblade is between these two on the opposite side?

alright just for clarification, iceblade would have his back to the west wall (with the front door/main street), facing inside. the guards have their backs to the east wall (with the back door/alleyway), facing the inside as well.

Ah, I see. They're each covering an exit, with Iceblade on teh side that we want him on, and with the guards by the entrance. Ok.

other way around actually, unless iceblade is going to bail into main street.

Ah. Rear attack!

Jimbo, did it occur to you that Sliver and our target are between you and the door? Since phantom hasn't said what her reaction is, or what her initiative is... then we're still standing there.

I did say that you and the target and skuld were on one side of the door, and that crossfire had the opposite side covered.

I stand corrected, strike my last statement from record and smash away my good man!

Um, are we using a houserule I didn't know about? Because unless you abort to a full defense (giving up your next action) you can't use any skills to help defend against ranged attacks. You just roll Reaction. And Improved Reflexes doesn't actually give any benefit to those rolls, either. It increases your initiative directly, not upping your reaction. Yes, I know this means I'm likely getting shot for worse, but I just noticed this, and I wanted to be clear on things.

the rules have always been for a basic dodge, it is reaction + dodge, full defense is reaction + dodge + dodge; give or take a few random combinations depending on the situation.

For melee, that's how it works. For ranged it is just Reaction, and full defense is Reaction + Dodge.

Page 142, SR4: Defending against Ranged Combat
There is no skill that applies to defending against ranged attacks -- defending characters simply roll Reaction (the defaulting modifier does not apply). Characters may also go on full defense (p. 151).

Page 151, SR4: Full Dodge: Character on defense may add their dodge skill when defending against incoming attacks. So a character on full defense against a ranged attack rolls Reaction + Dodge, whereas a character on full defense against a melee attack could roll Reaction + Dodge + Dodge, or Reaction + Melee combat skill + Dodge. Full dodge may be used against both ranged and melee attacks.

wouldn't the assumption be that a person would always choose full defense unless you were surprised, stupid, or wanted to use a different defensive option that was better suited. Like Riposte for Shadow.

Except that going Full Defense means you lose your next action. So if you go full defense every round you can't fight back. You can't even run away if you're doing full defense.

Alrighty then, Since this nit picking is getting to me, why don't we call it a house rule that both melee and ranged attacks get reaction+dodge. I'm sorry, i'm normally by the book, but at the moment, i don't care. So mirikon is right about the incresed reflexes spell and power, so magicians are just slightly more boned, but otherwise. Otherwise it is Mirikon's turn to post.

Phantom, it's been a while since I looked at High Pain Tolerance, but that just means that they can ignore a box of damage for modifier purposes. The Guard that Skuld shot would still have taken 11P not 9... right?

yep, he took 11p, but since he took damage earlier, he was dead anyways.

I like dead, dead is good

Phantom, I need to give a heads up. I'll be on the road for the next two weeks, and I can't be certain that I'll be able to make a post on any given day. If more than a day goes by and I haven't logged on, Phantom can run Sliver for me. I hate to do this guys, but it can't be avoided.

As I said in the other thread, I'm just really not comfortable with the bit about rolling the enemy's defenses, or even the fact that we know the enemy's defenses. So rather than disrupt the game, I'll be bowing out.

and... WHY are you retiring him Jimbo?